Citizens' Task Force on Wind Power - Maine

ELECTRIC CARS LOSE RANGE DURING HOT AND COLD WEATHER

Weather Can Decrease an Electric Car's Range by More Than 40 Percent: Report

http://www.thedrive.com/news/26383/cold-weather-can-cut-an-electric...

If you thought driving an electric car in the freezing cold decreases range, just wait until you turn on the heater.

If you thought riding an electric bus in freezing cold decreases range, just wait until the bus goes uphill with a load of passengers with the heater on.

Any snow on the road will further reduce range.

It's no secret that cold and hot weather decrease the performance of a battery, regardless of the application.

Here are some additional references:

http://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/electric-vehicles-and-m...

http://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/replacing-gasoline-and-...

http://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/tesla-model-3-long-term...

http://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/flawed-epa-method-of-ca...

http://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/replacing-gasoline-cons...

http://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/lifecycle-co2eq-of-inte...

AAA Report: A new study by AAA confirms electric cars are no exception to reduced range in the cold, noting that it is especially exacerbated when owners crank up the heat to keep themselves warm.

In an effort to be brand-agnostic, AAA used five different vehicles as their test subjects:

2017 Tesla Model S 75D
2017 Volkswagen e-Golf
2018 Chevrolet Bolt
2018 BMW i3s
2018 Nissan Leaf

Each vehicle was placed on a dynamometer (typically used to chart vehicle power output) in a climate-controlled environment. During each battery-draining run, the temperature in the room surrounding the vehicle was varied to understand the effects different climates would have on range.

AAA obtained a baseline range reading on each vehicle at 75 degrees Fahrenheit.

AAA tested each vehicle in 20 degree and 95 degree weather, with and without the use of the car's built-in HVAC systems.

COLD WEATHER

In 20-degree weather, heater not on, the range decreased by an average of 12% from baseline

In 20-degree weather, heater on, the range decreased by an average 41% from baseline

"An EV would easily use almost double the amount of power for a 15-mile trip," Jason Hughes, a member of the Tesla community known for modding his carsand refurbishing spare Tesla parts, told the Associated Press. "It's definitely an issue. If you want to go somewhere far in the cold, you're going to be using more power."

HOT WEATHER

AAA found high temperatures decreased the range without the AC on, and decreased range even more with the AC on.

In 95-degree weather, AC not on, the range decreased an average of 4% from baseline.

In 95-degree weather, AC on, the range decreased an average of 17% from baseline.

TESLA MODEL 3

The Tesla Model S and Model X are offered with a battery heater as standard equipment to bring the battery up to temperature, which reduces charging time and range.

The Model 3 does not have a battery heater.

http://www.thedrive.com/news/24944/these-are-all-the-issues-tesla-m...

Tesla offers a feature called “pre-conditioning”, which, on a cold day, warms up the passenger cabin and the battery while the car is plugged in, i.e., before driving. Hopefully, the car is parked in a garage.

This feature is useful for owners who leave their cars plugged in overnight to avoid wasting precious range while commuting.

NOTE:

- Whether EVs are used, or not used, some of the electricity is taken from the battery to operate various systems. Just go on vacation for 2 weeks, park a fully charged Tesla Model S at the airport, and you will be shocked at how much charge is lost.

- Some of the electricity would still be lost, even if no systems were operated.

- Some of the electricity is lost during charging.

- The total of these losses is about 21% for the Tesla Model 3 in California. See Appendix.

- These resting/charging losses likely would be greater in colder climates, such as the New England

- These resting/charging losses are separate from increased consumption per mile when driving during hot and cold weather

APPENDIX 1

Long-Term Road Test of Tesla Model 3

Edmunds, in California, has been performing a long-term road test of a Tesla Model 3 since January 2018. Here are the latest results from the Edmunds website.

https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-3/2017/long-term-road-test/2017...

A recent road test of the Tesla Model 3, performed by Edmunds, showed 1388 miles of driving in California, some of it on hills

- Wall meter consumption was 30.2 kWh/100 miles.

- Vehicle meter consumption was 25.17 kWh/100 miles.

- The charging/resting time loss was 16.7% to 21.29%, much greater than the 15% assumed in these articles.

http://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/replacing-gasoline-cons...

- The charging/resting time loss was over 20% with different drivers and different road trips.

- Winter driving would require about 0.400/0.301 = 33% more electricity per mile than summer driving. See next section about Tesla Model S and URL

http://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/flawed-epa-method-of-ca...

- The charging/resting time loss was over 20% with different drivers and different road trips.

- EV drivers know little of the charging/resting time loss; they rely on the lower numbers of the EV meter.

- February, March and April were not shown, because of missing data. See table 6 and URL

https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/

Table 6/ Model 3	Jan	Feb	Mar	Apr	May	Jun	Jul	Aug	Sep	Oct
Odometer	1388	2922	3937	5237	6009	6659	7679	9329	10307	11174
Test travel, miles		1534	1015	1300	772	650	1020	1650	978	867
Wall meter, kWh/100m
Lifetime average	30.20	30.90	31.70	31.70	31.40	31.80	31.70	31.00	31.10	30.80
Veh. meter, kWh/100m
Lifetime average	25.17				24.83	25.03	25.09	24.76	24.70	24.49
Best fill, period	20.00				28.50	28.60	28.00	26.70	25.60	25.60
Best fill, lifetime	25.60	25.60	25.60	25.60	25.60	25.60	25.60	25.60	25.60	25.60
Charge/rest time loss	5.03				6.57	6.77	6.61	6.24	6.40	6.31
Charge/rest time loss, %	16.66				20.92	21.29	20.85	20.13	20.58	20.49

APPENDIX 2

One-Year Experience With a Tesla Model S

An upstate New York owner of a Tesla Model S measured the house meter kWh, vehicle meter kWh, and miles for one year (bold numbers in table). There was significant kWh/mile variation throughout the year. His real world annual average was 0.392 kWh/mile, house-meter basis, and 0.333 kWh/mile, vehicle-meter basis.

- The Model S has regenerative braking as a standard feature.

- The owner did not take into account the source-to-house electrical losses.

- Owners may use more or less than 0.392 kWh/mile in other US regions.

- New EVs would have less kWh/mile than older EVs, due to battery system degradation.

- Data as measured by owner in New York State covers only the driving energy. The embedded energy and its CO2 are ignored.

See URLs, especially the second, which has a wealth of data.

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1090685_life-with-tesla-model-s...

http://www.uniteconomics.com/files/Tesla_Motors_Is_the_Model_S_Gree...

NOTE: In these article, I used 0.350 kWh/mile, vehicle-meter basis, for a mix of NE LDVs (cars, SUVs, minivans, ¼-ton pick-ups, short- and long wheel base). As the Tesla Model S, with a very low drag coefficient, shows an annual average of 0.333 kWh/mile (vehicle meter basis), my assumed 0.350 kWh/mile likely is significantly too low. Table 2.

http://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/replacing-gasoline-cons...

Table 2/Tesla, Model S
Electricity cost, c/kWh	19.0
Travel, miles/y	15243
Vehicle meter, kWh/y	5074
kWh/mile, vehicle meter	0.333	5074/15243
kWh/mile, vehicle meter	0.301	Apr-Oct
kWh/mile, vehicle meter	0.290	July
kWh/mile, vehicle meter	0.371	Nov-Feb
kWh/mile, vehicle meter	0.400	Jan
House meter, kWh/y	5969
Charging, resting time factor	0.85
kWh/mile, house meter	0.392	5969/15243
Travel cost, c/mile	7.4	5969 x 19/15243

APPENDIX 3

Hydro-Quebec Electricity Generation and Purchases: Google this URL for the 2017 facts. The H-Q electricity supply is an order of magnitude cleaner than the Vermont supply.
http://www.hydroquebec.com/sustainable-development/energy-environme...

Table 5/H-Q	2017
	GWh
Hydropower generated	177091
Purchased	44006
- Hydro	31610
- Wind	9634
- Biomass and waste reclamation	2021
- Other	741
Total RE generated and purchased	221097

NOTE:Gentilly-2 nuclear generating station, plus three thermal generating stations (Tracy, La Citière and Cadillac) were shut down.

Hydro-Quebec Export Electricity: H-Q net exports were 34.4 TWh/y in 2017; provided 27% of H-Q net income, or $780 million, i.e., very profitable.

H-Q export revenue was $1,651 million in 2017, or 1641/34.4 = 4.8 c/kWh.

See page 24 of Annual Report URL.

This is for a mix of old and new contracts.

Revenue = 1641

Net profit = 780

Cost = 1641 - 780 = 861

Average cost of H-Q generation = 861/34.4 = 2.5 c/kWh

GMP buys H-Q electricity, at the Vermont border, for 5.549 c/kWh, under a recent contract. GMP buys at 5.549 c/kWh, per GMP spreadsheet titled “GMP Test Year Power Supply Costs filed as VPSB Docket No: Attachment D, Schedule 2, April 14, 2017”.

H-Q is eager to sell more of its surplus electricity to New England and New York.

That is at least 50% less than ridgeline wind and large-scale field-mounted solar, which are heavily subsidized to make their electricity appear to be less costly than reality.

GMP sells to me at 19 c/kWh, per rate schedule. Consumers pricing for electricity is highly political. That is implemented by rate setting, taxes, fees, surcharges, etc., mostly on household electric bills, as in Denmark and Germany, etc. The rate setting is influenced by protecting “RE policy objectives”, which include highly subsidized, expensive microgrids, islanding, batteries and net metered solar and heat pumps.

http://www.hydroquebec.com/sustainable-development/energy-environme...

http://news.hydroquebec.com/en/press-releases/1338/annual-report-2917/

http://www.hydroquebec.com/data/documents-donnees/pdf/annual-report...

http://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/green-mountain-power-co...

http://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/increased-canadian-hydr...

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Comment by Thinklike A. Mountain on February 8, 2019 at 3:01pm: I've read that electric cars are more expensive to insure and that this can be based on a number of factors such as:

1. Used more in urban settings where cars tend to be packed closer to each other on the road causing more accidents.

2. Lighter materials may be used meaning collision damage may be more severe

3. Damage to battery and other electronics may cost more to repair

Given the faster loss in resale value for electric vehicles, are they more likely to het totaled by the insurance company sending them to be crushed sooner?

Comment by Thinklike A. Mountain on February 8, 2019 at 2:37pm: "We still see 20-year-old gasoline-engined SUVs in daily use on the morning commute, but how likely are we to see 20-year-old electric SUVs on the roads in two decades? The depreciation and attrition of expensive electric cars and SUVs is likely to outpace the trajectory of expensive gasoline-engined luxury cars, absent easily upgradeable batteries and affordable maintenance costs for their second and third owners."

https://autoweek.com/article/green-cars/will-electric-cars-serve-yo...

If electric vehicles have a shorter lifespan and get crushed sooner than their gasoline counterparts, it seems that would mean that more cars in aggregate must be manufactured thanks to the quicker need for replacement vehicles. How could such additional manufacturing be good for the environment?

Comment by Thinklike A. Mountain on February 8, 2019 at 2:24pm: Resale value on electric cars can be a problem. One would think the problem would be worse in very cold or hot places where disgruntled owners might be more inclined to quickly trade in.

"Electric vehicles lose more than $5700 per year, on average, over the first five years. That’s about $28,500 off their original price compared to an average of less than $3200 a year or $16,000 over five years across all vehicle types."

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15340530/evs-are-cheap-to-run-bu...

Comment by Eric A. Tuttle on February 8, 2019 at 12:31pm

33.56

kWh /gal

0.02980

gal=1kWh

So they are claiming to have achieved 100+ Miles per gallon. Really?

Comment by Eric A. Tuttle on February 8, 2019 at 12:27pm

	BTU's		3,412.14	KwH	/GAL	GAL	/kWh	1 Million BTU's	GAL	x2000 LB	293.07	x2000 LB
Crude Oil	138,095	/gal		40.47	kWh /gal	0.02471	gal=1kWh	# gal / MMBtu's	7.2500	0.0858		0.0022	0.585278
No. 1 Fuel Oil	137,400	/gal		40.27	kWh /gal	0.02483	gal=1kWh	# gal / MMBtu's	7.2800	0.0858		0.0022	0.585278
Conv Summer	114,500	/gal		33.56	kWh /gal	0.02980	gal=1kWh	# gal / MMBtu's	8.7400	0.0858		0.0026	0.585278	0.0250
Conv Winter	112,500	/gal		32.97	kWh /gal	0.03033	gal=1kWh	# gal / MMBtu's	8.8900	0.0873		0.0027	0.595685

Comment by Robert Powers on February 8, 2019 at 12:07pm: I met a couple with a new electric car....they were bragging about the fact that they do not use gasoline....BUT In bad snow & ice...and cold...they have limited use of window defroster and heater...if they want to drive any distance....because the heater & defroster use too much battery juice!

Comment by Dan McKay on February 8, 2019 at 11:24am: Kind of like wind energy, very boutique.

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U.S. Sen Angus King

THE UNTOLD STORY OF RECORD HILL WIND

The Untold Story of Record Hill Wind, continued

Maine as Third World Country:

CMP Transmission Rate Skyrockets 19.6% Due to Wind Power

Click here to read how the Maine ratepayer has been sold down the river by the Angus King cabal.

Maine Center For Public Interest Reporting – Three Part Series: A CRITICAL LOOK AT MAINE’S WIND ACT

******** IF LINKS BELOW DON'T WORK, GOOGLE THEM*********

(excerpts) From Part 1 – On Maine’s Wind Law “Once the committee passed the wind energy bill on to the full House and Senate, lawmakers there didn’t even debate it. They passed it unanimously and with no discussion. House Majority Leader Hannah Pingree, a Democrat from North Haven, says legislators probably didn’t know how many turbines would be constructed in Maine if the law’s goals were met." . – Maine Center for Public Interest Reporting, August 2010 https://www.pinetreewatchdog.org/wind-power-bandwagon-hits-bumps-in-the-road-3/From Part 2 – On Wind and Oil Yet using wind energy doesn’t lower dependence on imported foreign oil. That’s because the majority of imported oil in Maine is used for heating and transportation. And switching our dependence from foreign oil to Maine-produced electricity isn’t likely to happen very soon, says Bartlett. “Right now, people can’t switch to electric cars and heating – if they did, we’d be in trouble.” So was one of the fundamental premises of the task force false, or at least misleading?" https://www.pinetreewatchdog.org/wind-swept-task-force-set-the-rules/From Part 3 – On Wind-Required New Transmission Lines Finally, the building of enormous, high-voltage transmission lines that the regional electricity system operator says are required to move substantial amounts of wind power to markets south of Maine was never even discussed by the task force – an omission that Mills said will come to haunt the state.“If you try to put 2,500 or 3,000 megawatts in northern or eastern Maine – oh, my god, try to build the transmission!” said Mills. “It’s not just the towers, it’s the lines – that’s when I begin to think that the goal is a little farfetched.” https://www.pinetreewatchdog.org/flaws-in-bill-like-skating-with-dull-skates/

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Hannah Pingree on the Maine expedited wind law

Hannah Pingree - Director of Maine's Office of Innovation and the Future

"Once the committee passed the wind energy bill on to the full House and Senate, lawmakers there didn’t even debate it. They passed it unanimously and with no discussion. House Majority Leader Hannah Pingree, a Democrat from North Haven, says legislators probably didn’t know how many turbines would be constructed in Maine."

https://pinetreewatch.org/wind-power-bandwagon-hits-bumps-in-the-road-3/

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