ELECTRIC CARS LOSE RANGE DURING HOT AND COLD WEATHER

Weather Can Decrease an Electric Car's Range by More Than 40 Percent: Report

http://www.thedrive.com/news/26383/cold-weather-can-cut-an-electric...

 

If you thought driving an electric car in the freezing cold decreases range, just wait until you turn on the heater.

 

If you thought riding an electric bus in freezing cold decreases range, just wait until the bus goes uphill with a load of passengers with the heater on.

 

Any snow on the road will further reduce range.

 

It's no secret that cold and hot weather decrease the performance of a battery, regardless of the application.

Here are some additional references:

 

http://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/electric-vehicles-and-m...

http://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/replacing-gasoline-and-...

http://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/tesla-model-3-long-term...

http://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/flawed-epa-method-of-ca...

http://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/replacing-gasoline-cons...

http://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/lifecycle-co2eq-of-inte...

AAA Report: A new study by AAA confirms electric cars are no exception to reduced range in the cold, noting that it is especially exacerbated when owners crank up the heat to keep themselves warm.

 

In an effort to be brand-agnostic, AAA used five different vehicles as their test subjects:

 

  • 2017 Tesla Model S 75D
  • 2017 Volkswagen e-Golf
  • 2018 Chevrolet Bolt
  • 2018 BMW i3s
  • 2018 Nissan Leaf

 

Each vehicle was placed on a dynamometer (typically used to chart vehicle power output) in a climate-controlled environment. During each battery-draining run, the temperature in the room surrounding the vehicle was varied to understand the effects different climates would have on range.

 

AAA obtained a baseline range reading on each vehicle at 75 degrees Fahrenheit.

AAA tested each vehicle in 20 degree and 95 degree weather, with and without the use of the car's built-in HVAC systems.

 

COLD WEATHER

 

In 20-degree weather, heater not on, the range decreased by an average of 12% from baseline

In 20-degree weather, heater on, the range decreased by an average 41% from baseline

 

"An EV would easily use almost double the amount of power for a 15-mile trip," Jason Hughes, a member of the Tesla community known for modding his carsand refurbishing spare Tesla parts, told the Associated Press. "It's definitely an issue. If you want to go somewhere far in the cold, you're going to be using more power."

 

HOT WEATHER

 

AAA found high temperatures decreased the range without the AC on, and decreased range even more with the AC on.

 

In 95-degree weather, AC not on, the range decreased an average of 4% from baseline.

In 95-degree weather, AC on, the range decreased an average of 17% from baseline.

 

TESLA MODEL 3

 

The Tesla Model S and Model X are offered with a battery heater as standard equipment to bring the battery up to temperature, which reduces charging time and range.

 

The Model 3 does not have a battery heater.

http://www.thedrive.com/news/24944/these-are-all-the-issues-tesla-m...

 

Tesla offers a feature called “pre-conditioning”, which, on a cold day, warms up the passenger cabin and the battery while the car is plugged in, i.e., before driving. Hopefully, the car is parked in a garage.

 

This feature is useful for owners who leave their cars plugged in overnight to avoid wasting precious range while commuting.

NOTE: 

- Whether EVs are used, or not used, some of the electricity is taken from the battery to operate various systems. Just go on vacation for 2 weeks, park a fully charged Tesla Model S at the airport, and you will be shocked at how much charge is lost.

- Some of the electricity would still be lost, even if no systems were operated.

- Some of the electricity is lost during charging.

- The total of these losses is about 21% for the Tesla Model 3 in California. See Appendix.

- These resting/charging losses likely would be greater in colder climates, such as the New England

- These resting/charging losses are separate from increased consumption per mile when driving during hot and cold weather 

 

APPENDIX 1

Long-Term Road Test of Tesla Model 3

Edmunds, in California, has been performing a long-term road test of a Tesla Model 3 since January 2018. Here are the latest results from the Edmunds website.

https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-3/2017/long-term-road-test/2017...

 

A recent road test of the Tesla Model 3, performed by Edmunds, showed 1388 miles of driving in California, some of it on hills

 

- Wall meter consumption was 30.2 kWh/100 miles.

- Vehicle meter consumption was 25.17 kWh/100 miles.

- The charging/resting time loss was 16.7% to 21.29%, much greater than the 15% assumed in these articles.

http://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/replacing-gasoline-cons...

http://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/replacing-gasoline-cons...

- The charging/resting time loss was over 20% with different drivers and different road trips.

- Winter driving would require about 0.400/0.301 = 33% more electricity per mile than summer driving. See next section about Tesla Model S and URL

http://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/flawed-epa-method-of-ca...

- The charging/resting time loss was over 20% with different drivers and different road trips.

- EV drivers know little of the charging/resting time loss; they rely on the lower numbers of the EV meter.

- February, March and April were not shown, because of missing data. See table 6 and URL

https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/

 

Table 6/ Model 3

Jan

Feb

Mar

Apr

May

Jun

Jul

Aug

Sep

Oct

Odometer

1388

2922

3937

5237

6009

6659

7679

9329

10307

11174

Test travel, miles

1534

1015

1300

772

650

1020

1650

978

867

Wall meter, kWh/100m

Lifetime average

30.20

30.90

31.70

31.70

31.40

31.80

31.70

31.00

31.10

30.80

Veh. meter, kWh/100m

Lifetime average

25.17

24.83

25.03

25.09

24.76

24.70

24.49

Best fill, period

20.00

28.50

28.60

28.00

26.70

25.60

25.60

Best fill, lifetime

25.60

25.60

25.60

25.60

25.60

25.60

25.60

25.60

25.60

25.60

Charge/rest time loss

5.03

6.57

6.77

6.61

6.24

6.40

6.31

Charge/rest time loss, %

16.66

20.92

21.29

20.85

20.13

20.58

20.49

 

APPENDIX 2

One-Year Experience With a Tesla Model S

 

An upstate New York owner of a Tesla Model S measured the house meter kWh, vehicle meter kWh, and miles for one year (bold numbers in table). There was significant kWh/mile variation throughout the year. His real world annual average was 0.392 kWh/mile, house-meter basis, and 0.333 kWh/mile, vehicle-meter basis.

 

- The Model S has regenerative braking as a standard feature.

- The owner did not take into account the source-to-house electrical losses.

- Owners may use more or less than 0.392 kWh/mile in other US regions.  

- New EVs would have less kWh/mile than older EVs, due to battery system degradation.

- Data as measured by owner in New York State covers only the driving energy. The embedded energy and its CO2 are ignored.

 

See URLs, especially the second, which has a wealth of data.

 

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1090685_life-with-tesla-model-s...

http://www.uniteconomics.com/files/Tesla_Motors_Is_the_Model_S_Gree...

 

NOTE: In these article, I used 0.350 kWh/mile, vehicle-meter basis, for a mix of NE LDVs (cars, SUVs, minivans, ¼-ton pick-ups, short- and long wheel base). As the Tesla Model S, with a very low drag coefficient, shows an annual average of 0.333 kWh/mile (vehicle meter basis), my assumed 0.350 kWh/mile likely is significantly too low. Table 2.

 

http://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/replacing-gasoline-cons...

http://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/replacing-gasoline-cons...

 

Table 2/Tesla, Model S

Electricity cost, c/kWh

19.0

Travel, miles/y

15243

Vehicle meter, kWh/y

5074

kWh/mile, vehicle meter

0.333

5074/15243

kWh/mile, vehicle meter

0.301

Apr-Oct

kWh/mile, vehicle meter

0.290

July

kWh/mile, vehicle meter

0.371

Nov-Feb

kWh/mile, vehicle meter

0.400

Jan

House meter, kWh/y 

5969

 

Charging, resting time factor

0.85

kWh/mile, house meter

0.392

5969/15243

Travel cost, c/mile

7.4

5969 x 19/15243

APPENDIX 3

Hydro-Quebec Electricity Generation and Purchases: Google this URL for the 2017 facts. The H-Q electricity supply is an order of magnitude cleaner than the Vermont supply.
http://www.hydroquebec.com/sustainable-development/energy-environme...

 

Table 5/H-Q

2017

GWh

Hydropower generated 

177091

Purchased

44006

- Hydro

31610

- Wind

9634

- Biomass and waste reclamation 

2021

- Other

741

Total RE generated and purchased

221097

 

NOTE:Gentilly-2 nuclear generating station, plus three thermal generating stations (Tracy, La Citière and Cadillac) were shut down.

 

Hydro-Quebec Export Electricity: H-Q net exports were 34.4 TWh/y in 2017; provided 27% of H-Q net income, or $780 million, i.e., very profitable.

 

H-Q export revenue was $1,651 million in 2017, or 1641/34.4 = 4.8 c/kWh.

See page 24 of Annual Report URL.

This is for a mix of old and new contracts.

Revenue = 1641

Net profit = 780

Cost = 1641 - 780 = 861

Average cost of H-Q generation = 861/34.4 = 2.5 c/kWh

 

GMP buys H-Q electricity, at the Vermont border, for 5.549 c/kWh, under a recent contract. GMP buys at 5.549 c/kWh, per GMP spreadsheet titled “GMP Test Year Power Supply Costs filed as VPSB Docket No: Attachment D, Schedule 2, April 14, 2017”.

H-Q is eager to sell more of its surplus electricity to New England and New York.

 

That is at least 50% less than ridgeline wind and large-scale field-mounted solar, which are heavily subsidized to make their electricity appear to be less costly than reality. 

 

GMP sells to me at 19 c/kWh, per rate schedule. Consumers pricing for electricity is highly political. That is implemented by rate setting, taxes, fees, surcharges, etc., mostly on household electric bills, as in Denmark and Germany, etc. The rate setting is influenced by protecting “RE policy objectives”, which include highly subsidized, expensive microgrids, islanding, batteries and net metered solar and heat pumps.

 

http://www.hydroquebec.com/sustainable-development/energy-environme...

http://news.hydroquebec.com/en/press-releases/1338/annual-report-2917/

http://www.hydroquebec.com/data/documents-donnees/pdf/annual-report...

http://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/green-mountain-power-co...

http://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/increased-canadian-hydr...

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Comment by Eric A. Tuttle on February 10, 2019 at 1:02pm

Some states use a Road Use tax method for road damage based on the weight of the vehicle + Gasoline Tax.

Since Electricity is approximately equal to 


33.56 kWh /gal

For every 33.56 kWh these electric vehicles should be assessed a tax on an equal sum for gasoline. At the Charging Stations, and at the Home through a metering system. (hopefully not the CMP system) 

Then they should be assessed a Weight Tax at the time of registration similar to commercial vehicles. 

Comment by arthur qwenk on February 10, 2019 at 12:43pm

"Cold temperatures can sap electric car batteries, temporarily reducing their range by more than 40 percent when interior heaters are used, a new study found. For example, AAA’s testers determined that the Tesla’s range when fully charged at 75 degrees was 239 miles, but it fell 91 miles, or 38 percent, at 20 degrees." (AP 2/7/19) 

Musk is the world's biggest scam artist.  Now, how are the lines doing for Tesla purchases in Maine?

Comment by arthur qwenk on February 9, 2019 at 2:44pm

Surtax at sale EV's for the larger weight they have from batteries versus ICE auto weight.(significantly less per unit volume)

Weight     of Tesla 3        ~4000lbs 

Weight of Toyota Corolla  ~2800 lbs

Road damage from Tesla based on weight is more than a Corolla (similar size 2 axle vehicle).

How much does Tesla pay for gas tax at pump = $0

How much doe Toyota pay ?(with 30.01 cents in state taxes and fees per gallon of gasoline).

What a great revenue source if they ever sell well in Maine(doubtful). 

TAX EV's FOR ROAD DAMAGE which is caused by their heavier weight (presently  they do not get taxed for use on Maines roads).

Comment by Willem Post on February 8, 2019 at 3:49pm

If an EV gets 100 MPG EQUIVALENT, per phony EPA method, its real mileage is about 30 to 35 MPG, because all upstream energy, from mine to power plant, to grid, to user wall plug, is ignored.

Comment by Eric A. Tuttle on February 8, 2019 at 3:44pm

Willem, I agree with the overall analysis. These like wind turbines are a Fad of Folley destine to create more toxic landfills in someone's community or outlying land here in the U.S. rather than being fully recycled. 

Even if it were true that they achieve a 100mpg equivalent (which I doubt) that would be equal to $7.40 per gallon, or greater if the performance is less.

  

Comment by Willem Post on February 8, 2019 at 3:31pm

Whether EVs are used, or not used, some of the electricity is taken from the battery to operate various systems

Some of the electricity would still be lost, even if no systems were operated.

Some of the electricity is lost during charging.

The total of these losses is about 21% for the Tesla Model 3 in California.

Such losses likely would be greater in colder climates, such as the New England 

Comment by Willem Post on February 8, 2019 at 3:21pm

Eric Tuttle,

Please read this article about the phony EPA method of calculating mileage for EVs.

That method is uses NOWHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD.

Comment by Eric A. Tuttle on February 8, 2019 at 3:08pm

5 Years will be about the turnover time when the battery is about to die. Rooking someone to burden the expense of a change. Not to mention all the other problems that may be inherited.

Comment by Thinklike A. Mountain on February 8, 2019 at 3:08pm

I've read that electric cars are more expensive to insure and that this can be based on a number of factors such as:

1. Used more in urban settings where cars tend to be packed closer to each other on the road causing more accidents.

2. Lighter materials may be used meaning collision damage may be more severe

3. Damage to battery and other electronics may cost more to repair

4. Electric cars accelerate faster

 

Given the faster loss in resale value for electric vehicles, are they more likely to het totaled by the insurance company sending them to be crushed sooner?

Comment by Eric A. Tuttle on February 8, 2019 at 3:04pm

Electric car battery warranties. Car makers are well aware that potential buyers are concerned about the longevity of their car's batteries, and many offer warranties tailored for EV owners. On the Leaf, for example, Nissan offers a warranty covering the battery and electric motor for up to five years or 60,000 miles.

Battery life is one of the biggest worries potential buyers have when considering an electric car. Along with range – and the fear of running out of power mid-journey, known as range anxiety – the way an electric car’s battery might degrade over time is considered a big barrier to EV ownership.

Like any battery, including the one in your mobile phone or laptop, the batteries in electric cars will lose some of their capacity over extended use. Below, we’ve explained why this happens and offered advice on how you can keep your electric car battery in top condition for longer.

https://www.whatcar.com/advice/owning/how-long-do-electric-vehicle-...

Hannah Pingree on the Maine expedited wind law

Hannah Pingree - Director of Maine's Office of Innovation and the Future

"Once the committee passed the wind energy bill on to the full House and Senate, lawmakers there didn’t even debate it. They passed it unanimously and with no discussion. House Majority Leader Hannah Pingree, a Democrat from North Haven, says legislators probably didn’t know how many turbines would be constructed in Maine."

https://pinetreewatch.org/wind-power-bandwagon-hits-bumps-in-the-road-3/

 

Maine as Third World Country:

CMP Transmission Rate Skyrockets 19.6% Due to Wind Power

 

Click here to read how the Maine ratepayer has been sold down the river by the Angus King cabal.

Maine Center For Public Interest Reporting – Three Part Series: A CRITICAL LOOK AT MAINE’S WIND ACT

******** IF LINKS BELOW DON'T WORK, GOOGLE THEM*********

(excerpts) From Part 1 – On Maine’s Wind Law “Once the committee passed the wind energy bill on to the full House and Senate, lawmakers there didn’t even debate it. They passed it unanimously and with no discussion. House Majority Leader Hannah Pingree, a Democrat from North Haven, says legislators probably didn’t know how many turbines would be constructed in Maine if the law’s goals were met." . – Maine Center for Public Interest Reporting, August 2010 https://www.pinetreewatchdog.org/wind-power-bandwagon-hits-bumps-in-the-road-3/From Part 2 – On Wind and Oil Yet using wind energy doesn’t lower dependence on imported foreign oil. That’s because the majority of imported oil in Maine is used for heating and transportation. And switching our dependence from foreign oil to Maine-produced electricity isn’t likely to happen very soon, says Bartlett. “Right now, people can’t switch to electric cars and heating – if they did, we’d be in trouble.” So was one of the fundamental premises of the task force false, or at least misleading?" https://www.pinetreewatchdog.org/wind-swept-task-force-set-the-rules/From Part 3 – On Wind-Required New Transmission Lines Finally, the building of enormous, high-voltage transmission lines that the regional electricity system operator says are required to move substantial amounts of wind power to markets south of Maine was never even discussed by the task force – an omission that Mills said will come to haunt the state.“If you try to put 2,500 or 3,000 megawatts in northern or eastern Maine – oh, my god, try to build the transmission!” said Mills. “It’s not just the towers, it’s the lines – that’s when I begin to think that the goal is a little farfetched.” https://www.pinetreewatchdog.org/flaws-in-bill-like-skating-with-dull-skates/

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