A Correlation of Wholesale Prices and Wind Output ?
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Comment by Eric A. Tuttle on July 26, 2016 at 11:39am
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And we will live where ? Oh, right, the cities.
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And today, thus far New England Wind has produced .1% of the electrical mix. At this rate we will need 1000 times as many Wind Turbines. And on a calm New England day I guess the lights finally go out. And it is going to be dark on those nights without Solar production.
Solar has produced about the same per this data thus far today. However since it only produces during the sunshine portion of the day, 2000 times as much solar would be needed for those calm days. Well assuming it was not calm and cloudy.
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Comment by Thinklike A. Mountain on July 25, 2016 at 9:50am
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It's completely rigged.
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Comment by Dan McKay on July 25, 2016 at 5:08am
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Two things : 1. ISO-NE allows wind to set prices in the real-time market as of this spring. How does wind set prices at negative values and not loose money ? 2. Power Purchase Agreements, where they sell their energy output, capacity payments and REC attributes to a buyer thereby acquiring their revenue outside of the wholesale market. The question I have is why the buyer doesn't make a stink about this negative pricing since they have to pay the market when prices go negative, although a price rebound usually follows a short period of negative pricing. I don't know if wind is setting the negative prices to force other generators to back out, but this phenomenon is concurrent with ISO-NE allowing wind to go from a price taker to a price setter.
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From what I understand on wind, it is given priority (when available) to go onto the grid. I would presume that other renewable sources that have the quickest ramp down time would be next in line to go off line with those that are harder to get off the grid being last in line.
No matter the order, the fact that Wind is producing at all would give them the PTC certificates and create the illusion they were carrying the load when available. This is what was said in Augusta to cause the Negative pricing when Solar was discussed. The unreliable sources create those negative prices. If we could see the Wind charts for that time period it should correlate to those negatives. When excess coal, oil, gas or other sources over produce or can not be brought off line in a controlled manner based on the forecast needs those too can cause a lower A (even negative) pricing, but those are more predictable and are often teetering at a production level to either increase or decrease as the load indicators in the control rooms dictate.
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Comment by Kathy Sherman on July 24, 2016 at 6:47pm
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I guess that people sleep in on Sundays so the uptick came later. I have been noticing negative pricing more like 6 AM, but I have only recently started paying attention to the day-ahead price and load. I believe that it is new that the cleared capacity is shown and what happened early this morning seems highly unusual in that the cleared prior to 8 AM (13257 MW) was substantially above even the forecast (11970 MW) as well as actual (11938 MW). Later in the day the cleared amount plateaued well before forecast or actual peak.
I agree that the info is valuable, but it needs a ISO-NE markets made easy. Does nuclear get what they bid into day ahead - it is pretty steady all 24 hr. Natural Gas seems to follow load increase (after period of negative pricing). I understand that wind generators want to sell whatever they can in order to collect PTC and RECs, but that seems to be so negative in price that it wouldn't be worth it except to disrupt competitors.
What I fear most is that ISO-NE does a pretty impressive job of forecasting but that is a job that soon will be much more difficult as more wind capacity gets built (and any utility-scale solar gets built), and the grid operators will still have the same obligations for reserve capacity in order to meet Energy Act 2005 reliability requirements.
Please advise if you find a good resource of New England's complicated "competitive" market system; ditto how legislated mandates will impact that "competitive" market. Thanks Dan and Eric.
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Of the 6% contribution from Renewable's, Wind contributed 9% or a total of .54%..... (so far today) How many of these things do they propose to build to sustain 100% when the demand keeps going up without efforts to reduce the demand. I guess the mentality of "It's Free Energy" screams louder than common sense and the corporate promises to certain politicians and Agencies of a more lucrative life, if allowed to build them so long as the taxpayer pays for them, screams equally as loud. Thus Common sense is drowned out for the dream of green free energy, which is "Not Free" when others must pay the piper for their greed or Ideals. This Site is worth monitoring.... Thanks again.
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Gracias !
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Maine as Third World Country:
CMP Transmission Rate Skyrockets 19.6% Due to Wind Power
Click here to read how the Maine ratepayer has been sold down the river by the Angus King cabal.
Maine Center For Public Interest Reporting – Three Part Series: A CRITICAL LOOK AT MAINE’S WIND ACT
******** IF LINKS BELOW DON'T WORK, GOOGLE THEM*********
(excerpts) From Part 1 – On Maine’s Wind Law “Once the committee passed the wind energy bill on to the full House and Senate, lawmakers there didn’t even debate it. They passed it unanimously and with no discussion. House Majority Leader Hannah Pingree, a Democrat from North Haven, says legislators probably didn’t know how many turbines would be constructed in Maine if the law’s goals were met." . – Maine Center for Public Interest Reporting, August 2010 https://www.pinetreewatchdog.org/wind-power-bandwagon-hits-bumps-in-the-road-3/From Part 2 – On Wind and Oil Yet using wind energy doesn’t lower dependence on imported foreign oil. That’s because the majority of imported oil in Maine is used for heating and transportation. And switching our dependence from foreign oil to Maine-produced electricity isn’t likely to happen very soon, says Bartlett. “Right now, people can’t switch to electric cars and heating – if they did, we’d be in trouble.” So was one of the fundamental premises of the task force false, or at least misleading?" https://www.pinetreewatchdog.org/wind-swept-task-force-set-the-rules/From Part 3 – On Wind-Required New Transmission Lines Finally, the building of enormous, high-voltage transmission lines that the regional electricity system operator says are required to move substantial amounts of wind power to markets south of Maine was never even discussed by the task force – an omission that Mills said will come to haunt the state.“If you try to put 2,500 or 3,000 megawatts in northern or eastern Maine – oh, my god, try to build the transmission!” said Mills. “It’s not just the towers, it’s the lines – that’s when I begin to think that the goal is a little farfetched.” https://www.pinetreewatchdog.org/flaws-in-bill-like-skating-with-dull-skates/
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Hannah Pingree on the Maine expedited wind law
Hannah Pingree - Director of Maine's Office of Innovation and the Future
"Once the committee passed the wind energy bill on to the full House and Senate, lawmakers there didn’t even debate it. They passed it unanimously and with no discussion. House Majority Leader Hannah Pingree, a Democrat from North Haven, says legislators probably didn’t know how many turbines would be constructed in Maine."
https://pinetreewatch.org/wind-power-bandwagon-hits-bumps-in-the-road-3/
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