Comments - FACT CHECKING REGARDING HEAT PUMPS IN VERMONT AND MAINE - Citizens' Task Force on Wind Power - Maine2024-03-29T12:04:17Zhttps://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/comment/feed?attachedTo=4401701%3ABlogPost%3A154028&xn_auth=noThank you, Dan
As low as -15…tag:www.windtaskforce.org,2018-12-24:4401701:Comment:1546012018-12-24T17:05:39.667ZWillem Posthttps://www.windtaskforce.org/profile/WillemPost942
<p>Thank you, Dan</p>
<p></p>
<p>As low as -15F is horse manure</p>
<p></p>
<p>ccHPs do not provide EFFICIENT heating at those temperatures, because the COP is about 1.15 at -15F, and 1.10 at -20F</p>
<p></p>
<p>COP = 1.00 is equivalent to electric heating</p>
<p></p>
<p>The COST PER HOUR of heating is higher with a ccHP at 0F and below, compared to ONLY FUEL OIL.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Owners should TURN OFF their heat pumps at about 0F and below. This is also true for highly insulated, highly sealed…</p>
<p>Thank you, Dan</p>
<p></p>
<p>As low as -15F is horse manure</p>
<p></p>
<p>ccHPs do not provide EFFICIENT heating at those temperatures, because the COP is about 1.15 at -15F, and 1.10 at -20F</p>
<p></p>
<p>COP = 1.00 is equivalent to electric heating</p>
<p></p>
<p>The COST PER HOUR of heating is higher with a ccHP at 0F and below, compared to ONLY FUEL OIL.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Owners should TURN OFF their heat pumps at about 0F and below. This is also true for highly insulated, highly sealed houses.</p>
<p></p>
<p>See URL</p>
<p><a href="http://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/vermont-baseless-claims-about-cold-climate-heat-pumps-for" target="_blank">http://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/vermont-baseless-claims-about-cold-climate-heat-pumps-for</a></p>
<p></p>
<p></p>
<p></p> The Liberty Report did no cus…tag:www.windtaskforce.org,2018-12-24:4401701:Comment:1543012018-12-24T12:39:52.153ZDan McKayhttps://www.windtaskforce.org/profile/DanMcKay
<p><em><strong>The Liberty Report did no customer surveys to determine load changes that may have changed with heat pump installations, but did add this observation :</strong></em></p>
<p><span>"Significant penetration of heat pumps employing electricity as a backup source heightens the weather impacts on usage in cold weather. CMP management has cited substantial growth in heat pump use but does not have solid estimates of how many now exist. There is, however, evidence of significant growth.…</span></p>
<p><em><strong>The Liberty Report did no customer surveys to determine load changes that may have changed with heat pump installations, but did add this observation :</strong></em></p>
<p><span>"Significant penetration of heat pumps employing electricity as a backup source heightens the weather impacts on usage in cold weather. CMP management has cited substantial growth in heat pump use but does not have solid estimates of how many now exist. There is, however, evidence of significant growth. Efficiency Maine’s FY2017 Annual Report observed that, “We continued to help Maine lead the nation in adoption of high-efficiency ductless heat pumps, and have now promoted more than 25,700 installations in the past five years.” Customers experiencing their first extended period of severe weather after installing a heat pump can find increases in electricity usage surprising, even as they benefit from reduction in the costs of the heating source displaced."</span></p>
<p></p>
<p><em><strong>EMT, a jubilant promoter of heat pumps, offers this :</strong></em></p>
<p></p>
<p><span>"Ductless heat pumps provide heat by extracting heat from outside air and delivering it indoors as needed. Because they are moving heat, rather than generating it through combustion or resistance, heat pumps can achieve efficiencies well above 100%. Long used for cooling in warm climates, heat pumps are now able to provide efficient heating in cold climates even at outdoor temperatures as low as -15 °F. "</span></p> Hi Eric,
The user ends up get…tag:www.windtaskforce.org,2018-12-24:4401701:Comment:1539782018-12-24T03:06:00.450ZWillem Posthttps://www.windtaskforce.org/profile/WillemPost942
<p>Hi Eric,</p>
<p>The user ends up getting billed the same kWh, whether monitoring is on a 120 volt or 240 volt line</p>
<p>Hi Eric,</p>
<p>The user ends up getting billed the same kWh, whether monitoring is on a 120 volt or 240 volt line</p> I know they can be hooked up…tag:www.windtaskforce.org,2018-12-23:4401701:Comment:1539622018-12-23T23:32:36.508ZEric A. Tuttlehttps://www.windtaskforce.org/profile/EricATuttle
<p>I <span>know they can be hooked up either way, so during the installation at a friends house, I stood over them every inch of the way. I made sure that the jumpers inside that convert it from 120 to 240 were positioned correctly and that they ran a 240v wiring circuit. </span></p>
<p>I <span>know they can be hooked up either way, so during the installation at a friends house, I stood over them every inch of the way. I made sure that the jumpers inside that convert it from 120 to 240 were positioned correctly and that they ran a 240v wiring circuit. </span></p> Power draw = 12 A x 240 V x 0…tag:www.windtaskforce.org,2018-12-23:4401701:Comment:1540512018-12-23T23:25:35.057ZEric A. Tuttlehttps://www.windtaskforce.org/profile/EricATuttle
<p>Power draw = 12 A x 240 V x 0.9 PF/1000 = 2.592 kW; a 20 A breaker is required <font color="#0000FF">(Double Pole)</font></p>
<p>Power draw = 24 A x 120 V x 0.9 PF/1000 = 2.592 kW; a 40 A breaker is required <font color="#FF0000">(Single Pole)</font></p>
<p></p>
<p>The 240v hookup would divide the 2.592 kW across both legs coming into the home.</p>
<p>1.296 on each. The meter is only looking at 1.296 with this installation.</p>
<p></p>
<p>The 120v hookup would apply the entire 2.592 kW to…</p>
<p>Power draw = 12 A x 240 V x 0.9 PF/1000 = 2.592 kW; a 20 A breaker is required <font color="#0000FF">(Double Pole)</font></p>
<p>Power draw = 24 A x 120 V x 0.9 PF/1000 = 2.592 kW; a 40 A breaker is required <font color="#FF0000">(Single Pole)</font></p>
<p></p>
<p>The 240v hookup would divide the 2.592 kW across both legs coming into the home.</p>
<p>1.296 on each. The meter is only looking at 1.296 with this installation.</p>
<p></p>
<p>The 120v hookup would apply the entire 2.592 kW to one leg while the other side would read Zero.</p>
<p>The meter is monitoring the higher of the two sides. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Thus the usage would appear to be double on a power billing.</p>
<p>Though the Unit is using the exact same amount of total power. </p> Dan,
I read the report.
Not a…tag:www.windtaskforce.org,2018-12-23:4401701:Comment:1539592018-12-23T20:20:23.686ZWillem Posthttps://www.windtaskforce.org/profile/WillemPost942
<p>Dan,</p>
<p>I read the report.</p>
<p>Not a word about heat pumps.</p>
<p>If people kept their heat pumps running during the cold snap, their bills would skyrocket.</p>
<p>I am looking for a survey of existing heat pumps in Maine that would corroborate the one in Vermont.</p>
<p>Dan,</p>
<p>I read the report.</p>
<p>Not a word about heat pumps.</p>
<p>If people kept their heat pumps running during the cold snap, their bills would skyrocket.</p>
<p>I am looking for a survey of existing heat pumps in Maine that would corroborate the one in Vermont.</p> Willem, if you go to the Main…tag:www.windtaskforce.org,2018-12-23:4401701:Comment:1541802018-12-23T18:15:11.881ZDan McKayhttps://www.windtaskforce.org/profile/DanMcKay
<p><span>Willem, if you go to the Maine PUC website and follow the link : </span></p>
<h1>Liberty Consulting Report Released Related to Forensic Audit of CMP's Metering and Billing Systems</h1>
<div>This report came about from complaints of high electric bills from the cold snap of last year. It may contain some useful information for you. </div>
<p><span>Willem, if you go to the Maine PUC website and follow the link : </span></p>
<h1>Liberty Consulting Report Released Related to Forensic Audit of CMP's Metering and Billing Systems</h1>
<div>This report came about from complaints of high electric bills from the cold snap of last year. It may contain some useful information for you. </div> Hi Dan,
It would be very use…tag:www.windtaskforce.org,2018-12-23:4401701:Comment:1542522018-12-23T18:04:57.911ZWillem Posthttps://www.windtaskforce.org/profile/WillemPost942
<p>Hi Dan,</p>
<p></p>
<p>It would be very useful to have the complaint history of ccHP owners for the past 5 years.</p>
<p>That data must be somewhere, but likely is carefully hidden, as it was in Vermont, until recently.</p>
<p>Fuel oil dealers might have the best data.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Power draw = 12 A x 240 V x 0.9 PF/1000 = 2.592 kW; a 20 A breaker is required </p>
<p>Power draw = 24 A x 120 V x 0.9 PF/1000 = 2.592 kW; a 40 A breaker is required</p>
<p></p>
<p>Heat pump power draw at 18000…</p>
<p>Hi Dan,</p>
<p></p>
<p>It would be very useful to have the complaint history of ccHP owners for the past 5 years.</p>
<p>That data must be somewhere, but likely is carefully hidden, as it was in Vermont, until recently.</p>
<p>Fuel oil dealers might have the best data.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Power draw = 12 A x 240 V x 0.9 PF/1000 = 2.592 kW; a 20 A breaker is required </p>
<p>Power draw = 24 A x 120 V x 0.9 PF/1000 = 2.592 kW; a 40 A breaker is required</p>
<p></p>
<p>Heat pump power draw at 18000 Btu/r output and COP of 3.0 = (6000 Btu/h)/(3412 Btu/kWh) x 1/0.9 = 1.954 kW, as metered by utility. </p> Dan McKay
I must ask if there…tag:www.windtaskforce.org,2018-12-23:4401701:Comment:1541752018-12-23T16:59:08.509ZEric A. Tuttlehttps://www.windtaskforce.org/profile/EricATuttle
<p>Dan McKay</p>
<p>I must ask if there are any statistics on how many Maine residents that have complaints about a higher energy usage allowed the installer to install the unit using 120v vs 240v.</p>
<p>Most homes in the U.S. use 120v for most common appliances. Even electric ranges though hooked up as a 240v unit, utilize 120v per topside burner with only oven elements using 240v. </p>
<p>In using 120v units, often homes find themselves by random chance having a Load Imbalance, meaning more…</p>
<p>Dan McKay</p>
<p>I must ask if there are any statistics on how many Maine residents that have complaints about a higher energy usage allowed the installer to install the unit using 120v vs 240v.</p>
<p>Most homes in the U.S. use 120v for most common appliances. Even electric ranges though hooked up as a 240v unit, utilize 120v per topside burner with only oven elements using 240v. </p>
<p>In using 120v units, often homes find themselves by random chance having a Load Imbalance, meaning more power is drawn from one leg of the 240v coming to the home than the other.</p>
<p>Since our metering system only monitors the higher of the two sides, we pay for the high side reading. While the low side use is undetectable.</p>
<p>Having a ccHP hooked up as a 120v unit would place the entire power usage on one side which may already be the High Monitored side, thus increasing the apparent consumption even higher.</p>
<p>This may be remedied sometimes, by attaching the 120v unit to the low side where it may go unnoticed.</p>
<p>Though the best option for everyone is to use a 240v hookup for homes, for all appliances this ccHP should have been done in such a way and Efficiency Maine and the likes should be insisting on it. </p>
<p>Everyone should have a qualified person to do a LOAD BALANCE check on their homes when they start seeing unexplained usage increases. <br/><br/>Often Loose Screws at the Breaker is the cause, as they loosen up over time as power is used and heats the wire and cools when power is not used. This too should be done either by a qualified person or with the Main Turned OFF. No homeowner should ever try to tighten the wires to the Main Breaker. Only Qualified persons.</p>
<p>A 12Amp 240v ccHP hooked up as a 120v ccHP is 24Amps. The meter reads Amps, not voltage. </p> Thank you, Dan.
Your comments…tag:www.windtaskforce.org,2018-12-23:4401701:Comment:1540362018-12-23T16:15:20.689ZWillem Posthttps://www.windtaskforce.org/profile/WillemPost942
<p>Thank you, Dan.</p>
<p>Your comments are much appreciated.</p>
<p>I will add the data to the article.</p>
<p>Thank you, Dan.</p>
<p>Your comments are much appreciated.</p>
<p>I will add the data to the article.</p>