I read where a wind "farm" was being sued in New York. The people who leased a small part of their land to the wind scammers were unable to sell anything until matters were settled in court. Somethin…

I read where a wind "farm" was being sued in New York. The people who leased a small part of their land to the wind scammers were unable to sell anything until matters were settled in court. Something leasers do not realize and are never told, unless they happen to be lawyers familiar with the system. Al Queda seeks out rural poor areas to bribe and radicalize the locals. They make promises and throw around money which immediately gets everyone's attention. The wind industry operates the same way. I wonder if they hire the same marketers and public relations people?

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Comment by John Gates on January 11, 2010 at 1:10pm
I don't know that there any "right ways" to use wind commercially given the noise of a large enough industrial scale turbine will invariably torture anyone living within a couple of miles - maybe more. The noise and vibration complaints are very real.
Comment by Frank J. Heller, MPA on January 11, 2010 at 12:57pm
??? on the right to use the wind commercially?? or government ownership & control over the wind, rain and air?
Comment by Martha Thacker on January 11, 2010 at 12:54pm
Frank J. Heller..

I am sure there are many in agreement with you in Augusta.
Comment by Frank J. Heller, MPA on January 11, 2010 at 12:01pm
HVDC power 'pipelines' are becoming a viable option, especially since Wiscasset is already a grid hub and the market is in Boston. The footprint is very small; as are the startup timetables; whereas coventional transmission lines require expensive acquisition of R.O.W.'s, construction, roads, etc.
Comment by Frank J. Heller, MPA on January 11, 2010 at 11:55am
I raised a similar question several times during meetigs with town planners.

So who really owns that wind?

The POLAND SPRINGS and other mineral leases were challenged by people claiming the property owner doesn't really own the water, especially for commercial purposes.

But what about the wind?

And this leads to the second question, which is how can you 'sell' or 'lease' wind rights, if the people really own it? .....and if they do, then a wind permit should include the 'right' to use the wind in a certain way.

Mineral rights scams are as old as history; and I don't think there are any public data bases on model leases, etc.
Comment by Art Brigades on January 10, 2010 at 10:58pm
Most everyone on this site is in agreement Martha. I wasn't clear in how I said it. To say we won't be overrun with turbines isn't born out by the frantic pace at which the applicants are coming. If the mid Atlantic and iso can find cheap renewable power elsewhere then we'll be saddled with this overcapacity of expensive intermittent wind power towers. Off shore, In my humble opinion, if they ever get it viable then undersea, although expensive, might be their only option, given the opposition to transmission lines.
Comment by Martha Thacker on January 10, 2010 at 10:16pm
Art re. transmission lines:

Undersea was being promoted in '07. From Wicassett to Boston. The PUC chairman said at the time that he did not think Mainers would want to pay for it..it would be quite expensive. Let's face it..the transmission lines are for the wind farm developers and Central Maine Electric. Rate payers would bear the cost.

The reason that this was promoted was a money making scheme. NStar in Mass. wanted to sell ME and NY wind power at 7% higher rates.Had to get some laws changed which they finally did. Because it is green. Never mind the fact that if all the transmission lines were in place, the power would be mixed up with regular old energy producers along the way. Money making scheme. Not quite honest. Also dumb. Power is lost for every mile it is transmitted. The power from wind farms is intermittant, not at peak consumption times and the least reliable of all . If it were not subsidized by tax payers...we would not have to be dealing with it.

We will not be overrun with turbines for ME usage. We export energy now. On any given day, we have more than we can use. If we had an honest Attorney General , First Wind would not even be in ME. They have no ability to finance all the wind farms being permitted. Enron all over again. With ME state govt. providing the cover.

ME has had two renewable power plants closed by Iso New England already to make room for the wind farms. Bio mass. Provided jobs year round for woodsmen. Wind farms provide construction work for Reed and Reed. Locals need not apply. I think they are afraid of sabotage because of their ruthless business practices. They only try to ingratiate themselves with business leaders, selectmen , planning boards and fools.
Comment by Art Brigades on January 10, 2010 at 7:02pm
I hear you. Yes they would be a blight. But there are many proposals, including underground in the median of 95/295, and undersea. If indeed there is demand (that's a good IF) and the HQ connection is going to happen, then we at least need to get the best deal possible. If New Hampshire hosts the HQ transmission line we could be cut out of any direct benefit (ISO benefits so we do too) and...this is the important part: while we might not become the windpower plantation for our southern neighbors, we might still be overrun with turbines for Maine usage because we failed to get a direct tap into HQ's big pipe to our south. And adding insult to injury, we'll pay higher rates because our electricity is 'champagne' while New Hampshire, Boston and New York benefit from the (every bit as good) 'beer' power from HQ.
Comment by Martha Thacker on January 10, 2010 at 6:54pm
Anybody's property can be taken by emminent domain for transmission lines. They are known to cause leukemia in babies and young children. So it would seem they are not great for anyone living near them. It would be different if ME actually needed them for it's own use. We don't. The promise of tolls benefiting the state requires more faith than I have in state and federal govt. The people who live at the wind farm in Mars Hill will tell you that their biggest mistake was trusting First Wind and their local govt. to tell the truth and to know what they were doing.Or even care .
Comment by Martha Thacker on January 10, 2010 at 6:50pm
Also re. the transmission lines going thru ME with some kind of toll. Have you seen pictures of the new super enormous size of these transmission lines? They would blight the state as much as wind farms.

Hannah Pingree on the Maine expedited wind law

Hannah Pingree - Director of Maine's Office of Innovation and the Future

"Once the committee passed the wind energy bill on to the full House and Senate, lawmakers there didn’t even debate it. They passed it unanimously and with no discussion. House Majority Leader Hannah Pingree, a Democrat from North Haven, says legislators probably didn’t know how many turbines would be constructed in Maine."

https://pinetreewatch.org/wind-power-bandwagon-hits-bumps-in-the-road-3/

 

Maine as Third World Country:

CMP Transmission Rate Skyrockets 19.6% Due to Wind Power

 

Click here to read how the Maine ratepayer has been sold down the river by the Angus King cabal.

Maine Center For Public Interest Reporting – Three Part Series: A CRITICAL LOOK AT MAINE’S WIND ACT

******** IF LINKS BELOW DON'T WORK, GOOGLE THEM*********

(excerpts) From Part 1 – On Maine’s Wind Law “Once the committee passed the wind energy bill on to the full House and Senate, lawmakers there didn’t even debate it. They passed it unanimously and with no discussion. House Majority Leader Hannah Pingree, a Democrat from North Haven, says legislators probably didn’t know how many turbines would be constructed in Maine if the law’s goals were met." . – Maine Center for Public Interest Reporting, August 2010 https://www.pinetreewatchdog.org/wind-power-bandwagon-hits-bumps-in-the-road-3/From Part 2 – On Wind and Oil Yet using wind energy doesn’t lower dependence on imported foreign oil. That’s because the majority of imported oil in Maine is used for heating and transportation. And switching our dependence from foreign oil to Maine-produced electricity isn’t likely to happen very soon, says Bartlett. “Right now, people can’t switch to electric cars and heating – if they did, we’d be in trouble.” So was one of the fundamental premises of the task force false, or at least misleading?" https://www.pinetreewatchdog.org/wind-swept-task-force-set-the-rules/From Part 3 – On Wind-Required New Transmission Lines Finally, the building of enormous, high-voltage transmission lines that the regional electricity system operator says are required to move substantial amounts of wind power to markets south of Maine was never even discussed by the task force – an omission that Mills said will come to haunt the state.“If you try to put 2,500 or 3,000 megawatts in northern or eastern Maine – oh, my god, try to build the transmission!” said Mills. “It’s not just the towers, it’s the lines – that’s when I begin to think that the goal is a little farfetched.” https://www.pinetreewatchdog.org/flaws-in-bill-like-skating-with-dull-skates/

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